08 June, 2009

Sleeping With The Enemy

Normally I try to offer some kind of comprehensive argument in postings, with background, both sides of the debate and proposed solutions.

But this time I’m just going to put it out there, because I am stumped.

Several conversations have been had recently about the so-called ‘rules’ of dating, and it’s slowly been eating away at me to the point where I am actually pissed off.

Dating etiquette states that women are not supposed to ‘put out’ on the first night, ideally not until the second or third, if you’re actually serious about taking it further: getting down and dirty early doors, apparently, means you are easy and is akin to wearing bells on your ankles the word “unclean” daubed on your face in menstrual blood.

For example, an English friend of mine always goes for it on the first date because, well, what’s the point in going out with someone if you’re not compatible sexually, something a lot of Northern Europeans seem to think too. She has a very good point, but most of the men she dates it seems disagree. “Job done” appears to be the overwhelming attitude. Now neither her nor I would suggest everyone follows her lead but, surely if the man is comfortable getting to ‘it’, then he is as responsible as the woman?

The implication is that that a woman has to act all coy and prim for, like, 10 hours, and then let it all hang out as if some mystical chirpse-threshold has been passed.

The man, meanwhile, is just a cock-on-tap ready to go when the light shines green but is tied inexorably into the ludicrous assumption that somehow following a pointless manifesto makes them any more or less desirable.

This is, well, insulting, to both men and women.

What do people think? Why is it that women are thought of in lesser terms when they do what most men would be prepared to do? Shouldn’t the fact that we are allowed and encouraged to sex each other outside of marriage have rendered such protocol redundant?

I am not sure. I know where I stand (not giving a fuck, if you’ll pardon the pun) but what about my fellow Femis? Answers on a novelty Sarah Palin condom packet please.


  1. To be honest, so long as it's between two consenting adults, I don't think it's anybody else's right to judge their decisions.

    The theory given to women even now is that relationships won't last if she sleeps with a guy on the first date/whatever, as he's just "getting what he wants."

    From my experience, the people I have felt comfortable enough to sleep with early on have been the much better lasting relationships, as I assume there has to be *something* there for me to get into bed with them.

    Though of course, this just makes me a "slag". I hate that word.

  2. I work with a guy who happily admits that if he sleeps with a woman on the first date he doesn't respect her and wouldn't date her further (wouldn't not sleep with her though) but then broke up with a woman he was seeing for a few weeks because she hadn't yet slept with him. Found that utterly enraging.

  3. oh bloody (not menstrually, sorry) hell.

    on the DM side of things, too much pressure to have sex isn't a good thing, and i can totally understand it's best for many to wait until they are more comfortable with their prospective partner before having sex (though this is less relevant if you already know them well as a friend, which to be fair is how many relationships start).

    otherwise... urgh. what do these stupid men think such wham-bamming will get them, some kind of medal of misled maidenhood? of course, my instinct would be to say "don't sleep with chauvinist tossbags", but i guess the girls they go for are probably less feminazi.

    another interesting facet of this problem in my experience is men who, distressed by your unwomanly unbotheredness about sex being no-strings, spend weeks trying to make you want to go out with them so they can then "turn you down" for something you said from the start wasn't going to happen anyway.

  4. Personally I wouldn't sleep with someone on a first date. It's not out of a 'good girls don't' kind of mentality, more out of a slight insecurity at my own body and also a wariness of people I don't know all that well. That said, I don't see why there should be any difference in behaviour between the sexes. If a woman is comfortable having sex on the first date, as long as she knows her own mind and, obviously, uses contraception, then why should she be any less entitled to this than a man?

  5. Hmmm, this gets on my nerves too. I always wait til the second time I've met a guy, but that's just me. (And it's hardly long!! Haha.) With boyf, we met at a wedding and I think a lot of people thought we'd slept togather. There were apparently some "slag" comments (nothing about him, haha why am I surprised). The next time I saw him I slept with him, after two weeks of non stop texting and calling, so in fairness I felt I knew him.

    We spoke about it more recently and I said I'd assumed he'd think I was a slapper if I'd have gone back with him that first night, but he said (and has said in front of pretty much all of the people who were at the wedding)that he was disappointed because he liked me and couldn't see the issue with it and that he wasn't seen as bad, so why was I? Because I'm a woman!

    He's also said in the past that having a lot of experience is a good thing in most areas of life, so why not sex? Fair point!
    I'll make a feminist of him yet ;)

    Sorry, couldn't resist.
    RE: women sexing it on first dates, personally speaking, I couldn't really care less whether she does it 1 or 10 dates in, so long as it's consensual. Quite why men seem to hang on to a positively prehistoric mindset of "virgins = good" (since this is merely a modern manifestation of that) escapes me.

  7. I think I should make myself clear - I'm not fussed either way. If people want to wait, sweet, if people want to do it in alleyways, um, sweeter. I just don't see why there are STILL different rules for men and women.

  8. I went out with a guy once who dumped his ex girlfriend when he found out that she had slept with as many people as he had. I could rant about the hypocrisy for days without a break so I'd probably best not start....

    Personally I've not usually moved to sleep with a person until I've known them a while, but even that hasn' stopped me from falling victim to the ole fuck 'n' chuck routine - if everyone could be a bit more grown up and a honest about their intentions, like with first date sex, then everyone would be a lot better off.


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